1. What genres do the following texts belong to?
Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Give some examples from these texts that support your identification (for example: "Voluspa is an example of the _____ genre, as the following references to gods from the poem illustrate: "Hear my words / you holy gods' (l.1) "By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore" (l.3), etc).
2. What are some possible features of residual (or "secondary") orality preserved in Voluspa, according to the criteria Ong (1982) advances?
3. Identify a central incident that happens in at least four of the above texts, and discuss how it is both similar and different in each example (remember to site from the original texts).
4. How did Tolkien draw on the Old Norse and Old English texts in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings fantasy novels? Provide some concrete examples.
5. Discuss how Tolkien's use of "tradition" (e.g. older literary sources) differs from the techniques and agendas of modernism (see Week 7 in your Reader).
6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
7. How does the film Beowulf and Grendel "problematise" the hero-myth of Beowulf ?
8. Discuss what you think any of these texts desire (in the sense of their intention, how they wish to be received, what pleasures they offer).
Time for a comment!
ReplyDelete(Part 1)
ReplyDelete6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
Could we look up old myths in the modern world? Unlike the ancient, the modern world looks like that is being controlled by reason, science and the human being will not be accepted old myths no longer, but old myths are still exist in those. Of course not looks like an age-old. Then where are those exist in deed? One of the biggest features of modern world is the development of a media of image. There are old myths in the media. It means that could be called movies, television, Internet, etc. Among them, there are much old myths in the modern films. For example, the title of the movies are 'Troy', 'Thor', 'Beowulf', 'The Hobbit' and 'The Lord of the Rings' etc.
Can we say myths evolve from religion then?
DeleteAlthough myths sprung from non believers, in the ancient world it was reality.
DeleteYou are onto it Rachel. it is no so much the myth that evolves but our attitude towards it. It is not a myth if we believe it to be true. How about the Virgin birth in Christianity?
DeleteHi Rachel. I would like to answer your question. In my opinion, it is up to you. According to your faith or religion, the answer will be differed by point of the view. I think there is a no definite answer. It depends on your belief.
DeleteGood point, Daehan. Modern science seems to have replaced myth, but do new myths arise? It is possible that myths come from the unconscious human mind, and are always with us in one form or another. Perhaps Fantasy satisfies our desire for myth and adventure.
ReplyDeleteSome problems with language.
I don't think myths are due to evolve again in the modern world or in future. Just as religion is dying out so are ancient beliefs. However, I see myths as religious stories and whether or not we chose to believe in them the modern world will always find a way to illuminate an unfamiliar myth and shift the perspective from the original set of values and build a whole new one in which sometimes contradicts the original story.
DeleteIn reply to your question "Do new myths arise?"
the way modern films are going, it will almost seem like new myths will arise. Producers twisting the plot, will eventually create a whole new myth and pretty soon there will be various versions of myths which will lead into new myths arising.
The key linking term is cosmology. We now believe that the universe was created by a Big Bang. Perhaps that belief will look like a myth to later generations.
DeleteYes, there are a new myths arise in the modern world. I think that new myths arise not only media such as fantasy films and novels, but also growing present world. In other world, we are making new myths in these days. For example, there are many sports heroes every country. Among them, Yuna Kim who is a figure skater is a national hero in South Korea. Many Korean people have called to Yuna ‘Queen Yuna’ or ‘god Yuna’ (CNN: Talk Asia, 2011, para 2). In the future, Yuna Kim`s story will be named by as one of the myth to one another.
DeleteReference
Kim Yuna: South Korea's ice skating icon. (2011). Retrieved March 23, 2014, from: http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/06/29/kim.yuna.talk.asia/
I like your point about the sports heroes, Daehan. They appear larger than life, more like super heroes than ordinary men and women. All we need is a little exaggeration and we create myths!
DeleteWhat place do the old myths have in the modern world?
ReplyDeleteOld myths all have something in common, a tradition sense. However, what old myths fail to illuminate are areas in which the modern world fantasizes over. The modern world uses myths as a sense of transition from the ancient to modern with a twist or another perspective.
The set of values shift our sympathy’s and the image we have of the characters. Therefore, the story line we are familiar with becomes a blur. What place do myths have in the modern world? We cannot say until we have knowledge of what a myth really means. What now is the meaning of myth to people who believe it is reality?
I think the existence of myths in the modern world are tending to look more like fantasy stories.
Beowulf- An old English Heroic poem. The Poem/Movie triggers the question “How does a monster become a monster?” or “How do these species evolve.”
Good start to the post. Nice thinking Rachel. Does modern culture produce its own myths, like the superwoman who can do everything. Are our sports heroes semi-mythological heroes?
ReplyDeleteFrom what we see in the film, television and comic book industry, the Norse myths and sagas have certainly managed to keep us entertained, adapting the old stories and legendary figures to fit into our contemporary world or re-imagining the story to fit into the views and opinions of its audiences. For example, in the movie Beowulf and Grendel, Grendel might not have even been a troll as believed time and again by readers. In this adaptation, he and his father were portrayed as unusually large men, who was at first targeted merely for being different, after which Grendel takes his revenge. In this film, Beowulf regrets having to kill Grendel, and realises that he was a victim to begin with. This does tend to fit in the view of many people, not to ''judge a book by its cover'', compared to the traditional view of a monster being born as such. It also stills in the belief that no being is perfect. Beowulf, for example, feels guilt and remorse, knowing what he did was not always right.
ReplyDeleteGreat post! Just out if curiosity, do you agree that the latest versions of such myths (Beowulf for example) end the way they do for a reason? Would you agree that the concept of a new version being established is to keep creating new versions or maybe even saga's.
DeleteToday, it is possible to modify certain things in a way, the original can no longer be visible. The human society, now, is at a degree where power determines what is right and what is wrong. In saying that, myths are no longer important or, as they would be to ancient, historical events. You can see that myths are slowly becoming "toys" that authors or directors play with in hope to entertain society and add credit to their reputation.
Well done, Nadya and Rachel, a good discussion here. Yes, myths can evolve, like other stories. And directors may 'toy' with mythological themes , but the result is sometimes more than just entertainment, but becomes a comment on human affairs. What does it mean to be ordinary?
DeleteIf you like films, try Bergman's The Seventh Seal where a sailor plays chess with Death...
Tolkien drew a great deal from the Norse myths and legends into his works. It speaks in many details, one of the most obscure being that Thorin Oakenshield's ancestor, one of the Seven Fathers of the dwarves, is Durin. In Norse mythology, it is stated in the Voluspa, Motsognir and Durinn are the first two dwarves created, short beings immensely skilled in metal-working. The One Ring itself and the story of Gollum draws from the legend of Fafnir, who murdered his father to gain a magical ring, which causes him to transform into a dragon. Sméagol the Hobbit, murders his cousin Deagol, for the Ring and it transforms him into creature Gollum. Fafnir himself, and his slayer Sigurd, may have inspired story of Smaug the dragon and his fall. Gandalf, is inspired by Odin, who was also known as a ''wanderer'' who used a staff, had a beard and wore a hat like Gandalf's. The reason for such influences was that Tolkien wished to create- or rather recreate- the ''lost'' mythology of Britain. He felt that the Norman conquest, and the fact that before the Romans came with their own pagan and Christian beliefs there was no form of writing for Britons, meant that the stories were never recorded.
ReplyDeleteAs you have mentioned Nadya, Tolkien has incorporated a great deal of Norse Mythologies into his tales, with such examples as Gandalf being the possible representation of Odin; the father of all gods and men in the universe. Another example can be seen in the setting of both ‘The Hobbit’, and ‘The Lord of the Rings’ trilogy. According to Wettestein (2002) Midgard is derived from ancient Norse mythology and is one of three worlds that compose the universe. “Midgard is the Middle World, wherein Men, Dwarves, Dark Elves and Giants live.” By taking this element and comparing it to both texts, audiences are perhaps able to see the similarities between many characters, such as Legolas, an elf, Thorin Oakenshield, a dwarf, and Aragon, a mortal/man, and the realm known as Midgard where such creatures dwell.
DeleteBut with this study, a question that does arise is, why Tolkien would use these examples instead of incorporating his own cultural beliefs?
According to Wettestein (2002) Tolkien had a great deal of difficulty when trying to find inspiration for his work. Tolkien believed that the place he called home, England, did not offer any real cultural beliefs in mythology such as ancient Greek and Norse. So with this Tolkien reverted to other sources of research, such as the Bible and William Shakespeare.
Web Source:
Wettestein, M. (2002) Norse elements in the work of J.R.R Tolkien. Retrieved from: http://www.academia.edu/228734/Norse_Elements_in_the_work_of_J.R.R._Tolkien
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteVoluspa is considered to tell mythical power through the characters established, which mainly are gods and imagined creation. From my perspective, during the transition from any narrative or images of voluspa to written literature genres such as poems or articles (telling the story), certain aspects of the primary orality could not be transferred fully or accurately due to the features like abstractness, unreal visual of Voluspa. Based on what has been mentioned in class, secondary orality might differ from the primary one because the revisioning the story that one tells could create difference in understanding and transferring the orality to written form. For the record, I think this revisioning could be subjective to some extent due to the distinct points of view that writers have. For example, Ong (1982) suggests that styled writing could be one of the factors that change the original expression slightly. Imagine when you have a picture in your mind and someone has to write down what you are thinking, the elements could be missed and the meaning of the image could be easily changed through this transition because of various opinions and thoughts.
ReplyDeleteAlthough writing could convey more or less than the original, it is used to help preserve Voluspa for a reason. According to Ong (1982), writing is not likely to dispense with Orality because writing breaks the first-handed materials into various components but importantly, it is impossible to acknowledge abstractly sequential, classficatory, explanatory examination of phenomena or stated truth without writing. And I guess these are the features that can be well-preserved through secondary orality.
Myths are everywhere in the modern society. Firstly, as is mentioned above, the strength of mythical power is told or expressed by gods or imagined creation. Thus, Myths have detailed and clear structure on designing of characters, story lines and world outlooks, which could be great for second creating in art works such as movies and games. For instance, Marvel’s awesome comics ‘Thor’ and the movies based on that both achieve great success in industries. Since those rich elements become the reservoir of artists’ inspiration as strong bunch, second creating related to myths is common at present. Secondly, the essence of myths is the power illustrated, which could be an eternal topic of all kinds of stories. In my opinion, even though time rushes forward, the desire for power continues. That is to say, no matter what era we are at, power that is seek for would always be a mission.
DeleteGood points here Joseph. Myths are everywhere! Think about TV adverts. Behind the lies and the exaggerations a myth is being pushed, the myth of materialism and the perfect consumer. The ideal life presented in ads have a mythological element in that they appeal to our deep subconscious.
DeleteThe film “Beowulf and Grendel” is a good example and explanation itself that indicates the difference in what people actually seek for in stories in the past and at present. As far as I’m concerned, the purpose of “problematising” the hero-myth of Beowulf is mostly to make the story reasonable and believable. For instance, from Beowulf’s pure-evil personality in the original to the blood thirsty for revenge due to the death of his father, the plots have been added so as to be convincing and realistic of course for the audience in the modern society who don’t buy things like ‘pure evil’. However, the personality of characters in myths might always be highly extreme such as goddess’s benevolence that she can sacrifice herself for lives. In a word, the aim changes from mythical power to reasonable plots as well as the original myths are used to create story line.
DeleteVoluspa is an example of mythological genre of poetry with the theme of gods.
ReplyDeleteVolsunga is an example of proes genre of poetry.
Beowulf is an example of Epic genre of poetry, with theme of the Hero.
Lord of the Ring and The Hobbit are an example of fantasy genre.
As Ong, W (1982) describes it; secondary orality is written word as apposed to primary orality, which is spoken word. Voluspa may have originated from spoken word poem and later transcribed into written word poem.
Modern interpretations of Norse mythology are used for entertainment such as scripts for movies.
Walter J. Ong (1982). Orality and Literacy: The Technologizing of the Word.
6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
ReplyDelete(part2)
There are also a lot of old myth books in the modern world. Especially, J.R.R. Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit are famous literary works for that was taken from Norse mythology and the Edda. According to Wettstein (n.d.) states “Norse elements that served as sources for the ideas of Tolkien” (para. 1).
Another old myth has been located in the music in the modern world. For example, Blind Guardian, the name of German`s band group, is heavy metal band made up quartet in the mid-1980s. The name of Blind Guardian's new single song : ‘Scalds & Shadows’ is motivated to Norse mythology : ‘the Volsunga saga’ which is the story of Volsunga family in Iceland in the 13th century, and ‘Scald’ also means as an old Norse myths a wandering minstrel (Felagund, 2006).
In conclusion, Norse mythology has an important role in the modern world. It has provided us enjoyment and happiness anytime, anywhere. These days, so many myths and events are reconstructed by movies, literatures, music and etc. Maybe human being have always pursue heroes and gods in our life. That is why we are studying literature, and have desire to literature.
References
Wettstein, M. (n.d.). Norse Elements in the work of J.R.R. Tolkien. Retrieved from http://www.academia.edu/228734/Norse_Elements_in_the_work_of_J.R.R._Tolkien.
Felagund. (2006). both the good and the bad... - 79%. Retrieved from http://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/Blind_Guardian/Fly/103562/.
8. Discuss what you think any of these texts desire (in the sense of their intention, how they wish to be received, what pleasures they offer).
ReplyDeleteIn a letter by J.R.R Tolkien, written to Elise Honeybourne, an admirer of his work, Tolkien discusses his intentions behind the famous series that started as a prequel to his famous children’s novel, The Hobbit. “I wrote the Lord of the Rings because I wished ‘to try my hand at a really long story that would hold the attention of readers, amuse them, delight them, and at times maybe excite them or deeply move them’.”
With this we are able to see the possible desire behind ‘The Lord of the Rings’ and ‘The Hobbit’. Despite the obvious craving of adventure, audiences are able to look into an unknown world filled with magical creatures and mystical realms and, although it may not exist in human reality, it is still plausible because of the portrayal of human emotions that are seen throughout the novels, such as bravery.
It is not uncommon for people to want to face their fears, to rise up against whatever evil is haunting them and vanquish it from their lives. This is perhaps why audiences yearn to express valour that is similar to the protagonist’s of the texts, Frodo Baggins and his companions. Because such bravery can be hardly found in today’s society, and is difficult to muster, audiences would rather partake in the adventures of The Lord of the Rings rather than facing reality.
References:
Letter to a fan. Retrieved from: http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/Tolkien-Letter-for-sale.php
7. How does the film Beowulf and Grendel "problematise" the hero-myth of Beowulf?
ReplyDeleteThe main point of movie`s ‘Beowulf and Grendel’ and ‘Beowulf’ describe that Beowulf fight against the Grendel. However, the difference between ‘Beowulf and Grendel’ and ‘Beowulf’ are that ‘Beowulf and Grendel’ reinterprets the other point through the modern view (Naver blog: Beowulf and Grendel, 2006, para 4). It is pretty interesting to audience. In this movie, film director create the Beowulf more cold-headed character and is more likely to be a traditional hero. He also portray that the Grendel have had a secret story which is revenge of his father`s death. At the beginning of the film, Grendel’s father is killed by King Hroogar and his soldiers in front of him when he is very young. Furthermore, the next scene that Grendel expresses his feeling that wail with holding his father’s head. Through these scenes, Even if Grendel kills and eats the people from Nordic kingdom, many people can understand Grendel`s behaviour and sympathize for this character, Grendel. Having a deep sympathy to him and feeling pity when he is killed by the hero-myth of Beowulf. On the other hand, in the ‘Beowulf’, Grendel just describes flagitious and cruel monster. It gives prominence to hero more bravery. These different situations in understanding can problematise between ‘Beowulf and Grendel’ and ‘Beowulf’. One is giving salience to a fact Grendel`s propriety, the other is giving salience to a fact a heroic figure of Beowulf.
Reference
Naver blog: Beowulf and Grendel. (2006). Retrieved March 23, 2014, from http://blog.naver.com/jhd7992?Redirect=Log&logNo=10004505191.
Great discussion here, Daehan and Rukuwai. Remember the wish fulfilment aspect of fantasy. The reader's secret fantasies of power of glory are being fed!
ReplyDelete6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
ReplyDeleteI modify my unclear meaning and grammar.
Unlike the ancient, the modern world looks like it is being controlled by reason, it means science and the human being will not be accepted old myths no longer. However, old myths still exist in today. Of course, today’s heroes don’t look like age-old heroes like immortal life or magical power. For example, sports heroes or war heroes. Then where / how can we find the old myths in these days? One of the biggest features of modern world is the development of image-focused media. There are old myths in the media. It means that could be called movies, television, Internet, music, e-book, etc.
Among them, there are many old myths in the modern films. For example, the title of 'Troy', 'Thor', 'Beowulf', 'The Hobbit' and 'The Lord of the Rings', etc.
There are also a lot of old myth books in the modern world. Especially, J.R.R. Tolkien’s ‘Lord of the Rings’ and ‘The Hobbit’ are famous literary works for those. Wettstein (n.d.) states “Norse elements that served as sources for the ideas of Tolkien” (para. 1).
Other old myths have been located in the music in the modern world. For example, Blind Guardian, German`s singer, was a heavy metal band in the mid-1980s. The name of Blind Guardian's single song : ‘Scalds & Shadows’ is motivated to Norse mythology : ‘the Volsunga saga’ which is the story of Volsunga family in Iceland in the 13th century, and ‘Scald’ also means as an old Norse myths a wandering minstrel (Felagund, 2006, para.).
Finally, old myths have an important role in the modern world. It has provided us enjoyment and happiness anytime, anywhere. These days, so many myths and events are reconstructed by movies, literatures, music, etc. Maybe human beings have always pursued heroes in our life. That is why we are studying literature, and have desire to learn many literary works.
References
Wettstein, M. (n.d.). Norse Elements in the work of J.R.R. Tolkien. Retrieved on March 16, 2014, from http://www.academia.edu/228734/Norse_Elements_in_the_work_of_JR.R._Tolkien.
Felagund. (2006). Both the good and the bad... - 79%. Retrieved on March 16, 2014, from http://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/Blind_Guardian/Fly/103562/
7. How does the film Beowulf and Grendel "problematise" the hero-myth of Beowulf?
ReplyDeleteI modify my unclear meaning and grammar.
The main point of movies‘ ‘Beowulf and Grendel’ and ‘Beowulf’ describe ,both of them, the Beowulf fight against the Grendel, monster. However, the difference between ‘Beowulf and Grendel’ and ‘Beowulf’ are that ‘Beowulf and Grendel’ reinterprets, view things from a different angle. That is, because he need a revenge to Nordic kingdom. (Naver blog: Beowulf and Grendel, 2006). It is pretty interesting to audience. In this movie, film director create the Beowulf more cold-headed character and is more likely to be a traditional hero. He also describe that the Grendel have had a secret story which is a revenge of his father`s death. At the beginning of the film, Grendel’s father is killed by King Hroogar and his soldiers in front of him when he is very young. Furthermore, the next scene Grendel expresses his feeling of anger and sadness with holding his father’s chopped head. (Gunnarsson, 2005). Through these scenes, even if Grendel kills and eats the people from Nordic kingdom, many people can understand Grendel`s behaviour and sympathy of what he did. The readers have a deep sympathy to him and feeling pity when Grendel is killed by the hero of Beowulf. On the other hand, in the ‘Beowulf’, Grendel just describes brutal and cruel monster. It gives prominence to hero more bravery. These different situations of understanding can problematice between ‘Beowulf and Grendel’ and ‘Beowulf’. One is giving remark to Grendel`s propriety, the other is giving remark to heroic figure of Beowulf.
Reference
Gunnarsson, S. (2005, September 14). Beowulf and Grendel [Video file]. Retrieved on March 23, 2014, from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1QDTFFmqKg
Naver blog: Beowulf and Grendel. (2006). Beowulf and Grendel (2005). Retrieved on March 23, 2014, from http://blog.naver.com/jhd7992?Redirect=Log&logNo=10004505191